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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
430
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Posted - 2014.04.29 12:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
So the taxes introduced for jobs, are they affected by the skills based around tax reductions? |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
430
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Posted - 2014.04.29 13:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:
So.
Starbases are either immune to, or have owner-set, taxes, so that's 10% reduced job installation cost right off the bat.
This definitely seems to imply no tax at a POS? |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
433
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Posted - 2014.04.29 13:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:
WORKFORCE COSTS, ie job installation costs, are paid at starbases. This is not a "tax", it's the cost of labor, which goes up in busy systems as you'd expect.
TAXES, the additional 1.1x multiplier to your workforce costs, are not paid at starbases.
Will we be able to mitigate workforce costs by placing marines, scientists, exotic dancers etc in a POS? I'd suggest double the effect for exotic dancers as a happy workforce is a more productive workforce  |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
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435
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Posted - 2014.04.29 13:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:[quote=Qorinn Eselle]The economic logic behind the installation cost calculation eludes me. Making the installation cost for a manufacturing job correlate directly to the sell price of the completed item in a given region doesn't make much sense.
...
Perhaps it would be better to use the cost of raw materials based on a perfect BPC and the average cost of the goods at the nearest trade hub for this calculation? Then at least it is based on the amount of raw goods required and the cost of those goods This would also tie the availability of goods locally into the cost calculation too I think. |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
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435
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Posted - 2014.04.29 14:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
I would suggest a discount on the workforce cost if the job is run in a POS (the new code must be able to include this in at least since it'll know not to apply NPC tax). Depending on how the database tables are set up it shouldn't be too hard to pull out the number of online labs for that POS and use this as a multiplier on workforce cost (if you provide better shinier equipment you will only be paying for labour). |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
435
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Posted - 2014.04.29 14:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
How will the workforce cost be determined for WH's? They are not in any system as such so will they simply have a base worforce cost dependent on the amount of universal work done inside the WH? |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
435
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Posted - 2014.04.29 15:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: Counting facilities at a starbase is somewhat computationally expensive right now, as we don't keep track of which structures are associated with each control tower in the DB. The "obvious solution" (ie what you've described, and what's in the original design) requires us to do some legwork to track that properly, which as I alluded to earlier is not particularly conceptually complex but requires a reasonable amount of work that we may or may not have time to do.
Perhaps add a new DB table that stores the station bonus keyed on the id of the tower. When you gather then objects to render the tower generate a hash from the ids, compare that to the bonus table. If the bonus doesn't exist store it, if it is the same hash carry on, if the hash has changed recalculate the bonus based on the objects to render and update the table, then the new cost calculation code can just check the new table which is automatically maintained and is rarely updated (assuming POS are rarely changed once set up.
Offf the top of my head so potentially crap but what the hell, I'm bored in work |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
435
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Posted - 2014.04.29 15:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
it's a 3 column table, tower id, hashkey and bonus and the calculation would be kept out of the pos code. As I say I'm boresd in work, but a new table isn't that hard. The code to use it would be where the problem lies in a legacy messed up system |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
435
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Posted - 2014.04.29 15:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
IIIMAPOBOgKA wrote: waiiiit you mean theres still humans operating the machinery ? I though that most of the work would be automated. And if I am amarr, can i put slaves in the line ? they dont cost anything !
This would be skilled labour, not half starved probably demented slaves...and think of a production line now, it still need techies to maintain the production line. The only time humans would be cut out is when rogue drones bring about judgement day and Arnie tells you He'll Be Back for his run of phased plasma rifles in the 40W range... |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
435
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Posted - 2014.04.29 16:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:NPC corp taxes at a POS makes no sense at all. Simply set the tax to the owning corp's tax rate. Or better yet, have specific tax rates that can be set by personnel with the relevant roles.
This will allow manufacturing corps to tax their members at a reasonable rate, or for solo players with lots of alts to simply set it to 0 and maximize their gains.
There isn't an NPC tax at the POS, just the workforce costs...and I'm working on getting them mitigated somewhat with exotic dancers in the POS... |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
435
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Posted - 2014.04.29 16:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Morphisat wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:So, let me see if I understand.
1) The 10% for NPC stations means all manufacturing at station is dead. Nothing with any reasonable volume is going to sell with enough of a markup to be profitable at that price. How do I know this? Because I would start making manufacturing the item at a POS and scoop the profit.
Because a POS doesn't cost money to run, right? Right? RIGHT?!   Not when you mine the Ice yourself ! Kappa
Wait...free ice??? Where! |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
435
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Posted - 2014.04.29 16:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Querns wrote:... Keeping this in mind, how about this: Scale costs based on the total number of manufacturing/research POS modules (whichever is appropriate for the type of RAM activity you're doing) owned by your corporation (alliance?) in the system, regardless of what control tower they are at. This is not a perfect approximation, but it gets pretty close, and it should be a lot cheaper to calculate, if I'm understanding the way Eve works internally. You don't have to do it constantly, either, if it's too expensive; the calculations could occur at downtime or even less frequently. You can handwave the delay by saying "it takes time for people to immigrate to the control tower and man the facilities" or some such.
That's pretty much what I was driving at before...one calculation at patch time, then only recalculate POS bonus if a POS setup is changed. I'm thinking POS will be pretty static in their setup. This uses the data already available too so is easier and seems to be a reasonable approximation of a corps system S&I capability. It makes sense too in that the POS labs can communicate with each other in system to run research, collate results etc etc, just treat extra manufacturing bonus as other arrays taking up slack and ferrying the goods around in the background for simplicity |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
440
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Posted - 2014.04.30 14:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Yes, online/offline shenanigans is something we need to think about.
calculate once at downtime, use that value for the next day
Could you not then online a whole raft of labs before downtime and offline them after? There would need to be some form of length of time online included to determine the actual use of the structure. This would make sense too as production line facilities are loathed to shut down usually as it takes time to get back up to optimal efficiency
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
440
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Posted - 2014.04.30 15:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Banko Mato wrote:
Edit: or save current number of modules with counter > 1 after incrementing counters, so no need to run the summarizing query every time a job is installed. Would even allow to statically display the current bonus directly in the industry UI (ofc decrement in case a module goes offline).
Just save the time a module was onlined. If the time is not > some amount then don't include the module in the calculation |

Corraidhin Farsaidh
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460
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Korthan Doshu wrote:
Pretty much what Eyjog said at Fanfest (watched on stream) was that industry was too prosperous and stable in EVE, so they wanted to shake things up. I **** you not.
Couldn't the same be said of the large nullsec groups? The ones that will have perfect control over their new industrial advantages and will ummmmm make even more profitable and stable industry under far fewer peoples control?...Seems entirely fair, knacker an area of the game and give the benefits to those already in a position to exploit them |
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